What do you think of religous rip offs?

[Abel Christian (Jaberwocky)]

what do you think of people borrowing from another religon take it in as there own makinga new religon from it. or do you think were comming closer to the whole picture doing it?

[terrence dempster]

at last an inteligent person thank you

[Bee Weezer]

That's the common reasoning given by a catholic once questioned regarding this matter. Yet, their actions show that indeed they worship statues or images. The most popular act is kneeling before a particular statue or image. How does the Bible describe the act of "kneeling"?
"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker."(Psalm 95:6)
The Bible describes "kneeling" as worshipping.
There is nothing wrong to keep a portrait of our ancestors but you don't kneel down
before it, do you?

This is what Apostle Paul has to say, "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill." (Acts 17:29)

Though it's not actually Christ's portrait but granting without conceding that it's His, does God allow His children to bow or kneel down before a statue or image?

""I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:8)

Never shall God will share or give His glory to any of idols i.e. statues or graven images or even a cross or to any thing which man bows/kneels before at.

With above citations, and am willing to cite more if you want further proofs that indeed the Bible is against it, I could say that Catholics do worship statues or images and for me, THAT'S NOT A WORST MISCONCEPTION.

Indeed the death of Christ is the very core of Christianity. It is his death on the cross
NOT THE CROSS or CRUCIFIX. As far as the Bible is concerned, Christ commanded the first Christians in His Church to arrange a Holy Supper where each must drink in the cup of His blood and eat from His flesh (pls. don't take it literally) in rememberance of Him i.e. His sufferings and death for our salvation. Never He taught or commanded that they must carve a cross and bow after it in due remembrance of Him.

[Valérie Charles]

I have a question for you Bee,

Have you ever been in catholic churches? Have you ever talked to priests about their views on this subject? I think the best person to ask is them. You cannot assume that they ''worship'' images without knowing what all the saint cult and mannerism is about.

I've talked with fews priest and monks about this and I can tell you, these people do not worship images, but all this mannerism is an exterior way to show what is already happening inside their heart. But mannerism and the saint cult are two different things.

[Bee Weezer]

Hi there Valerie. Thanks for the input. No malice please but your name sounds sexy. Here in the Philippines, one of our most popular game show hosts has the same name and yes, she's hot! :)
Anyway, back to our main subject, of course Valerie, I've been in Catholic churches. See, inspite of my beliefs against Catholic beliefs and practices, I don't discriminate. We are here just to compare notes but not to judge :) So I don't have problems to pay a certain church a visit. The only difference is that I don't get involved in their ceremonies. Most of my friends are catholics and from time to time we exhange views over our beliefs but never it happened that it caused a fight or schism within a circle. In my part, I just share and it's up to you how you evaluate it.
Well, sheep heeds the voice of his shepherd. So do you think Catholic priests would give me a different reasonings as far as "worshipping images" is concerned? The answer is absolute, NO. Now, if you need references authored by some Catholic priests confirming that indeed they kneel down before the image and utter.."you are my god.." just tell me and I will take the effort to ask one of our ministers just to satisfy further this claim.
But the fact that the Bible from the very start has already prohibited such act, why does man still find a reason, based on earthly wisdom, to have the Bible follow their beliefs/practices rather than the other way around?
They kneel down before the image and some devoutees even wipe some of their personal belongins i.e. handkerchieves on it. So how could you say that "it is not worshipping" the images?

I don't want to get wronged by you so can you please elaborate further on these "mannerisms" and "saint cult"? Because if you would say that whatever is already happening INSIDE THE HEART is being manifested by mannerisms, it would worsen the situation. But I keep my views for now until I hear it first from you.

Peace!

[Abel Christian (Jaberwocky)]

Blessed are the pure at heart they shall see God. That really ends agurments if we wanted to make any. But lets just for that sake of aguments have are debates anyways. It's all interesting.

[Bee Weezer]

Hi there Abel! It's so nice to hear from you again.
In the New International Version - Matthew Chapter 5, the word "Blessed" is mentioned
9 times. The first eight are the qualities that a follower of Christ must possess.
And following the teachings of Christ would cause his followers unevitable
persecutions and that is the 9th blessing because there is a reward for the
one who could stand the test.
Therefore, the one who is truly pure at heart, who shall see God eventually,
is the one who follows the voice of Christ.

[Abel Christian (Jaberwocky)]

I could cut you up with the edge of hate but I wont do that. But serously understand what youd mean yourself if you are true to your heart in understanding what you worship and why you do in christs name. He'd have troubles just like the rest of us. and understanding yet his point of veiw even so having one. would you really fallow what you did if you mind was open to a brighter understanding and willing to go thru it? It might sound harsh. But I do mean good by the parts saving he be with you. If you really wish to be with jesus. then let it shine. But you got a leap ahead of you if you really wish to carry a message futher then what you deliver. In fact a better leap then preachers out there if your will to stand on that ground for Jesus.

[Bee Weezer]

Abel, sorry, but I really don't know exactly what you really wanted to convey. But let me try and if I got you wrong, please correct me.
1. I could cut you up with the edge of hate but I won't do that.
Me: Do you mean that you hate me? You won't do that yet you said it :) I stand on my post because that is my belief and if it contradicts yours then refute it but don't take it personally because I never attack anybody here personally but just want to know more the "truthfulness" of their beliefs (not their faith) if they really conform with the teachings of the Bible. If they do, then prove it to me. That's the object of this conversation.
2. But seriously understand what you'd mean yourself if you are true to your heart in understanding what you worship and why you do in Christ's name.
Me: As far as I am concerned, I am always true to my heart Abel especially when it comes to WHO (and NOT "what") I worship and I do them in Christ's name because that is the one acceptable in the sight of God.
3. He'd have troubles just like the rest of us.
Me: Who? If you meant the Christ, which one? And why is it so?
See, just like of your previous posts, you just say a certain remark/observation/
or allegations yet no logical reasonings or reference to support your claim.
4. And understanding yet his point of view even so having one.
Me: I don't get this one. Sorry. Please explain further.
5. Would you really follow what you did if your mind was open to a brighter understanding and willing to go thru it?
Me: As far as my beliefs are concerned, I show my faith thru my actions and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. Now, what is this "open to a brighter understanding"? Which brighter
understanding....of what (I would say?)
6. But I do mean good by parts saving he be with you.
Me: I don't get this one. Sorry. Please explain further.
7. If you really wish to be with Jesus, then let it shine.
Me: From the very start, my point is clear Abel. Read it all over again and please don't be emotional. If we truly believe in our hearts that we have faith and believe in Jesus, then we must put it in ACTION not in words. The main subject was all about "worshipping graven images" and my belief contradicts that. And I only quoted the verses which clearly state the truth that using images or statue in worshiping HIM is not acceptable in His sight. So I put my faith in action, I follow what the Bible commands me to do. Now, if others who are here do not agree with it, then that is fine with me. I am not here to convince or to convert anybody. The thing is, I've shared what I consider is the truth and if you think it's not the truth, you have two options only. Refute it or decline to continue with the subject. Whichever I will respect but WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE EMOTIONAL. If one does and already cursing instead of proving further his points, then it will be I who will step back because a such shall bear no more of good fruits.

Now my question to you is this: HOW IS TO BE WITH JESUS? Since you were the one who said that, now I wish to know your understanding on that statement of yours, only if you don't mind. You said that "if your mind was open to a brighter understanding...". Then, show it to me please and let me test myself if indeed I am not in a brighter understanding.

The rest after that, I completely don't understand. Sorry but am having difficulty with your spellings and grammar. Please don't get angry. Am just being honest.

Awaiting your reply.

[Abel Christian (Jaberwocky)]

How do I say something that isnt agenst another in harmfull way and say it anyways? such might be your loving God. I guess you can say its true that it is agnest God but not really. After all were born in the image of God and its so said several places in old testiment that he loves and he hates. So I wont and why bother bring it up if Im not going to do it anyways? but lay off doing it. in fact it was rather useless to bring up saying I do have a knife angest what you stand for but Im not going to use it. Also saying that its pretty much useless to bring up so dropping the subject might as well be ideal unless God inteads for you to understand my point of veiw used there. then It is God or jesus that enlightens you or has trouble in those areas becouse you were meant not to understand it in first place. Regardless what I said I said and doesnt change things and said them for a reason. that settles 1-6 If God wants you to understand he will enlighten
As for number 7 I was just saying God bless you let him enlighten in the truth of Jesus Christ. But I was pretty much saying bless your relationship between you and him. but its seeming so That I failed to commuticate or have in fact little or no boundries to speak on this matter according to your faith. saying a simple blessed be in another forum. And I failed some how to give you this pat on the back saying contuie have good faith in Jesus. Regardless I'll take my faults and move on to next thing.

[Bee Weezer]

ok Abel.

[Abel Christian (Jaberwocky)]

Yeah back to the topic anyways lol.

[Bee Weezer]

am just waiting for their replies Abel. I want to know how aware they really are regarding their beliefs. People interest me. Religions fascinate me. I question some practices but never I question one's faith. So as far as the topic is concerned, it has nothing to do with the faiths of our friends here. But I want them to prove to me that indeed the Bible is not against using the images or statues in worshipping God. Because as far as I am concerned, the Bible abhors such act yet our friends here claim that they also believe in the Bible. So how come we oppose to one another if we have only same basis of our faith - the Bible? Then, let's have a friendly argumentation. It may not lead to agreeing with each other but the fact that you've already shared whatever you think is "true" with your fellowman is already considered by God enough and it's all up to HIM.
As for you, I've opted to say nothing else further for a very simple reason. I don't know exactly what to say because again, I have this difficulty to understand your comprehension. For you, it seems you've already written whatever was in your heart and mind. But for me, it was all in abstract forms. Your conjunctions are jeopardized. Your spellings, your grammars etc. In fact, you've never answered clearly my previous post which I don't mind any more. Yes, also for same reason. Hard to understand your wrong english. Sorry, just being honest.